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*with spoilers* Living Story Timeline and RP Concerns (with poll )

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Introduction

Right, hello everyone, my name is John, Diraen.6597 in game. I have been around the scene since launch, and have been all over the place as a member, officer, DM, GM, random rper etc. Currently I am working as a DM/narrative creator for TCA and after a discussion we had considering the new Living Season we have all decided to bring a matter to the community regarding the timeline.

Ever since the first instances of the living season something always bugged me in the way we handled things in RP regarding the timeline and such. At first I just thought it was the various time bubbles many guilds and roleplayers chose to do, as we never seemed to fully agree as a community on the proper time to wait until we would react into LS content IC.

I have been keeping track of the story since HoT and I have come up with a proposal, backed with things I have noticed for all you guys.

Again, I feel the importance to stress that this is just a suggestion brought up to you guys. If the community disagrees then nothing will come off it. If it agrees, then I think we can all finally be on the same grounds when it comes to the story and our IC.
Theory

The idea is this. The events of the living story and campaigns despite the IRL time it takes for the next episode to come out, they always seem to start exactly where the last ended, regadless of the IRL time passing. This can be implemented in rp as it would keep everyone on the same page, avoid RP confusion while making new content for roleplay and then finding out you couldn't do some things at all as it's explained in the next chapter that something like that couldn't happen. Prevent spoiler spreading for returning players, etc

That would mean, that aside the obvious, that we would be unable to know anything the commander has told in confidence to his close circle of "guild mates", the death of Joko would NOT happen up intil perhaps a few days before the release of the next living season, thus meaning the war on Kourna will drag on for about 3-4 months (or whatever time frame they have on each living season)

I feel that this is a much more realistic approach to the story, as a lot of events that have been going on lately would require much more time than a mere few weeks (even -with- waypoints), as we have travel via normal ships (for Sly), mustering of forces, march to locations, setting up a camp, waging a war etc.

The Evidence


Since HoT it would seem that every living season would take part shortly after the end of the previous cycle, and though at first it could have been just a sort of "catch up" conversation taking place after a few months of calm, the final nail to my theory was in fact this living season.

We all know that in the beginning of this living season, Faren and the Council of Amnoon is expecting a supply ship with relief supplies from Kryta after the events of the previous seasons. A few things connected with my theory then and there

For starters, the ship is supposed to be carrying relief supplies for Amnoon after the Brandstorm, which goes against what most if not -all- of the rpers that have been roleplaying, as we have treated Amnoon as a recovered city.

Secondly the event is treated with the fanfare, attention and statements as if it is the -FIRST- ship of relief supplies from Kryta, which also directly punches the rp of MANY roleplayers I know, as people have been roleplaying bringing in supplies via ship or other means to Amnoon for months, and yet it seems that only now the first ship of relief efforts has arrived.

This is just the most recent example of how the start of the living season treating each episode as if the previous one JUST now wrapped up and finished.
The Proposal

For the above reasons I suggest to the community, that we all treat each Living Season as ongoing until the next season. I know that this might be a nuisance to some areas, especially if for whatever reason the living season takes a direct blow at one of the main RP locations. But at the same time I think it will help everyone be on the same page, and help me and my fellow DM's with making proper narrations and events that may be tied to the story (such as for example, having a volunteer force escort a caravan to the rift for Kourna).

Thank you all for your time! I am looking forward to your opinion on this matter and off course your vote.

I will let the poll out for ten days, to give everyone time to respond but also not stall anyone. Have fun roleplaying and hope to see you online!
I endorse this to become a community wide stance
13 votes
56.5%
I do not want this to become a community wide stance
10 votes
43.5%
Number of voters: 23
Poll is closed
Posted Jul 2, 18 · OP
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The big issue with making sense of timeframes, is that Anet is inconsistent themselves in how time is represented in-game.
My big problem with this entire episode is that even some minor digging at the core of the issue reveals glaring continuity issues.

One key issue is the following: it would take too much time to march an army from Tyria / Amnoon, to Kourna.
Yet, the Olmakhan and Istani Sunspears somehow manage to cross the entire distance from Istan and Atholma to... the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, so they can go through that portal.
... Why did they not just commit to a naval landing with the Corsairs? Both Istan and Atholma are at least two to three times as far from the Tomb, as they are from actual Kourna. Are we to assume they both managed to muster an army, and somehow counter-intuitively move it all the way to the staging ground outside the Tomb of Primeval Kings in the span of days, when we've just explicitly been told it is impossible to cross the same distance 'in time'?

So, the story continually insists there is a lack of time, and goes through the motions to make it feel like it is a matter of days, but... it can't have been. There is no way they could've mustered two armies, from geographically distant locations, and get them on site at one of the most isolated places in Tyria, "just in time" to prevent Joko's plague.

The only possible explanation is to assume they somehow dredged huge amounts of troops through fucking waypoints, which invalidates the entire plot to begin with.

So yeah. I know for a fact we're not sticking with the "it only lasts a few days" trash, because that's basically just Anet writing in a time factor to make the Commander's actions feel more heroic because of the "In the nick of time!" trope. Since they don't respect their own timeline and timeframes anyway, I don't really feel the need to argue the integrity of keeping it sacrosanct, especially when they violate it in the same episode.

Just remember: according to canon and the continuity calendar, Mordremoth was dead before Heart of Thorns even shipped. That's how much effort Anet puts into timeline continuity.
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TyrusVE.8742
Posted Jul 16, 18
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The big issue with making sense of timeframes, is that Anet is inconsistent themselves in how time is represented in-game.
My big problem with this entire episode is that even some minor digging at the core of the issue reveals glaring continuity issues.

One key issue is the following: it would take too much time to march an army from Tyria / Amnoon, to Kourna.
Yet, the Olmakhan and Istani Sunspears somehow manage to cross the entire distance from Istan and Atholma to... the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, so they can go through that portal.
... Why did they not just commit to a naval landing with the Corsairs? Both Istan and Atholma are at least two to three times as far from the Tomb, as they are from actual Kourna. Are we to assume they both managed to muster an army, and somehow counter-intuitively move it all the way to the staging ground outside the Tomb of Primeval Kings in the span of days, when we've just explicitly been told it is impossible to cross the same distance 'in time'?

I'd assume the sunspears were already prepped and rallied, personally. but the Olmakhan is an unknown. There are issues for sure.
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So yeah. I know for a fact we're not sticking with the "it only lasts a few days" trash, because that's basically just Anet writing in a time factor to make the Commander's actions feel more heroic because of the "In the nick of time!" trope. Since they don't respect their own timeline and timeframes anyway, I don't really feel the need to argue the integrity of keeping it sacrosanct, especially when they violate it in the same episode.

What's the other option though? "Oh, Joko actually has the plague, last episode we built that as a huge deal. But now that he has it and it's actually deployed we can spend weeks of time preparing to move for him, then weeks on the battlefield."?

I agree there is a bit of fubar in the first stage, but I think the actual battle in Kourna makes perfect sense to be only a few days(at most). You can't support a major army camp with just supplies launched over the vine wall from the corsairs.

HELL, maybe the sunspears and Olmakhan went into the inquest base, and used one of the gates tied up to that processing center in the highlands, which is not that far from tomb?
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Just remember: according to canon and the continuity calendar, Mordremoth was dead before Heart of Thorns even shipped. That's how much effort Anet puts into timeline continuity.

Yeah, but the only other way to view that is "But the pact sat around at the forward camp for months-a year before actually deploying, even though we left the camp as they were literally preparing to set off."

You can grumble at them for "lack of effort" but the only way it could work is if they literally released heart of thorns right after that last living story episode of season 2. Or have events take place on a single day (like the original ancient karka event).

I think the best way is to look at it and figure out where things take longer, and where they may have taken a bit less time. Like battle for LA against scarlet, obviously didn't take 2 weeks+ for the winds to shift and blow the miasma out of the city.


On subject of this particular episode, I think the only real timeline weirdness is in first instance, to second instance. Though as I said above, it's not like there isn't an inquest base directly south of the Olmakhan, and another right near the Tomb with working Asura gates. Speculation, but it could be feasible.

I think it's important personally, when RPing to take into account that just because it's been a month or such IRL, doesn't mean that events in universe are going at the exact same pace. When we get timeframes ingame (by journals or mentions) we should look at those as guidelines. What's the point in building RP within the game and lore if we toss out details like that and go "Nope, the battle around Gandara lasted for a solid month of intense fighting." or "Lake Doric was filled with horrific conflict for months!". To quote Arenanet from living story season 1, about the giant marionette battle. "In lore, that event took place a single time and was a win for the good guys."
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Posted Jul 17, 18 · Last edited Jul 17, 18
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The Sunspears can't have been prepared and rallied, the assault plan is only conceived and planned within the span of an episode. The timeframe they have to "plan" was the time it took the Commander to get from Amnoon to the Tomb of Primeval Kings, unless we somehow assume there are unnumbered weeks between those two points.
Regardless.

I've been roleplaying for years, and keeping an IC journal with daily posts since before HoT launched: the huge timeline desync is disgustingly apparent, to the point that I simply don't follow Anet's insanely warped timeline anymore. They clearly don't care, asides from constantly writing their narrative as an action movie plotline where every content release always happens in the space of a few days, but they neglect to do any actual world building. What is there left for people to RP? I'd rather stretch the limits of the story by not adhering to Anet's lunatic insistence to give every Living Story episode a plot-line straight out of 24, because time pressure is the cheapest narrative plot device they possess to make your actions relevant.

Take Gandara: it's a siege. They have supply lines, even if they are tenuous. That means that, by military definition, it is supposed to be a lengthy affair, and there is nothing wrong with that. Virtually all the events in Kourna are presented as being plague-containment actions, and there are actual siege lines in the form of the vine walls.
Obviously, Anet's writing team wanted to put the pressure on because a sense of urgency lends meaning to the hero-aspect of the character. No-one wants to sit through the six-month siege of Gandara as a plotline, because that's boring.
But you can bet your ass I'll roleplay it that way if I want to, because that situation is equally likely once you take away the entirely arbitrary urgency plot they've wedged into their episode.

Now obviously, there's an argument to be had on both sides: that's what this thread is for. I do my very best to try and stick to Anet's lore, in so far that it makes sense cohesively, and is not just bluntly idiotic. Part one is that I separate mechanics and lore, even when those two blur the line (Mist War, Waypoints, Resurrection Shrines) or contradict themselves, and part two is that I take a step back from the decisions Anet makes to lend weight to their storytelling, especially when that impacts the logical progress of events. In general, I'd rather play out all of Anet's "URGENT - THIS ALL HAPPENED IN THE SPACE OF AN HOUR!" stories over the scale of days, weeks or even months.
Not only does that keep internal roleplaying timelines intact (because some episodes are supposed to ICly happen right after each other, but OOCly months of RP have happened in between) without having to constantly retcon months and months of game time because Anet's arbitrary progression of time, it also provides a lot more room to interact and enjoy parts of the narrative in character.

Since HoT, TACH hasn't bothered to respect Anet's "lore" timeline anymore, because they fucked us over on that one. We had a choice as a collective there to either retcon... well, about a year of our IC timeline, because the community decided to take the Pact fleet leaving at the end of LS2 as having happened immediately. Or, we could decide to stick with our unbroken, unwarped timeline, with the note that the few IC dates we were eventually given didn't align with our journals and landmarks events entirely anymore. The years are still correct mind, but through sheer necessity, Mordremoth's canonical death, and our headcanon Mordremoth death, are months apart.

So for me, the entire point of trying to bend yourself around Anet's insane timeline is stupid. As long as you're within a closed-circuit guild, just break the contuinity, and do whatever suits your guild best from a timeline perspective. Is that lore-adhering? Fuck no. But doing otherwise is actually worse, because Anet's lore on their timeline is straight up nonsensical. The Mordremoth example is key, because illustrates an extremely flippant attitude to time continuity from Anet's standpoint, that is impossible for any roleplayer that does not make time-skipping and time-warping a habit to actually roleplay in the setting.

It's one of those very rare occasions where I actively advocate lore-deviating for the sake of convenience.
But, if you want to follow the lore to the letter in every instance, then you are, obviously, entirely free to do so. I just thought my viewpoint on the matter might offer an interesting perspective.
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TyrusVE.8742
Posted Jul 17, 18
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Reading the above I will have to say that I try to be on the in between the two.

On one hand, we are roleplaying in Guild Wars 2, and wether we like to or not, have to adhere to the lore of Arena Net, unless we have a closed guild and we specifically bubble that rp entirelly.

That said, I have to agree with Tzahr that A-net's blatant disregard for roleplay is borderline offencive. You cannot pretend to listen to a community and give us a "roleplay party search" to get our money, and not put any effort into actually making the world worthy of using that party to begin with. (I will not even comment how the very notion of putting a LFG party for roleplaying shows how much they lack a grasp of roleplay)

Personally as a DM and a player I try to go down the middle ground. On one hand, I try to patch up everything I can and make sense of the universe often using Guild Wars 1 as a template, since I have found that Guild Wars 1 tied mechanics to lore and ic -way- better and as such serves as a better platform to try to understand how something works, especially with the classes. For example, saying that the moment X group goes through the portal with the soldiers, the events take place in the span of 3 days, and working around to somehow explain that their absence from IC is due to them travelling back etc.

On the other hand, the way the living story has basically devolved into badly written anime/action shows is begging to wear down my patience. I understand that making a living season takes a lot of time, a lot of effort and a lot of work to make it happen, especially every 2-3 months as they want to, but the amount of repeating tropes and disregard to plug in their own holes only leaves a story that is starting to resemble a hole-ridden canvas you stretch and stretch instead of fixing to the point of uselessness.

To the matter at hand. Sure, the time pressure thing is one way of putting on the pressure on the main characters and give a heroic momentum to it all. But on the other hand, the gun-ho attitude they have had since the first expansion really kills off the living story they so want to promote. Every new area is viable and full of content in the span of a single living episode, at best, and instead of filling in the blanks and making the world more vibrant and actually alive, they just move on to the next big thing and we do not even have time to enjoy the areas.

In guild wars 1 you also lay siege to Gandarra. And like in gw2, the assault lasted for a single day. HOWEVER, the way -that- was handled contrast to this, makes it that much more epic and intense because they spend time building up the entire momentum into the crescento that basically launches Nightfall. You spent time (which translates to weeks with ease), training recruits, planning the attack, marshalling your forces, sailing there, and sure, when you get there, the entire thing happens in a single day, but still you have lived the entire thing, experienced it fully, and when the time comes for the time pressure, you are actually invested.

Right now the way the lore is expanding but remaining unexplained, it is becoming harder and harder to roleplay, as we see many new and interesting abilities for our classes that were previously unexplored but we get no information as to how and what they are and how to incorporate them into IC.
Posted Jul 17, 18 · OP
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Guys, we were given a rough timeline in like the very first episode.

The Gen 3 scarab beetles were speculated to appear in X amount of time (which I can't recall because I only came out of hiatus to get that sweet-ass roller beetle; tunnel vision is a bitch). The party is all like, "Oh noes, we'll never march an army to Gandara in that timeframe!" Then of course, as the Commander has a habit of doing, they cut corners to meet an objective. In this case permanently scarring space-time in doing so. And viola! The Gen 3 scarab plague appears presumably on schedule (as no one stated otherwise) at the gates of Joko's palace.
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Posted Jul 17, 18
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The time we had is 3-5 days
Posted Jul 17, 18 · OP
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On one hand, we are roleplaying in Guild Wars 2, and wether we like to or not, have to adhere to the lore of Arena Net, unless we have a closed guild and we specifically bubble that rp entirelly.

You can adhere to the lore of the game AND not want to deal with the nonsensical timeline they force down our throat. They're not mutually exclusive.
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Posted Jul 19, 18
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Well, I had started a reply, but it got wiped. So basically a precursor point. I prefer to look for connections or answers. IE: "How could they get to the Tomb quickly?" "Maybe they used the inquest gates near the Olmakhan that connect to the processing base under the ogre village?"

Other disclaimer is, I have begun to hate the phrase "Anet hates roleplayers!" "Anet attacks roleplayers!" "Anet disregards roleplayers". We are a minority. Anet is making a game for all. There are sometimes real life development times that cause interruptions in the story/timeline, but there is no proof of it being done to "Purposefully fuck over role players"
The Sunspears can't have been prepared and rallied, the assault plan is only conceived and planned within the span of an episode. The timeframe they have to "plan" was the time it took the Commander to get from Amnoon to the Tomb of Primeval Kings, unless we somehow assume there are unnumbered weeks between those two points.
Regardless.

On sunspears of Istan, last time we saw them they were actually formed up into an army and actively going to reclaim villages/towns. So it's feasible that they still have a group ready to move out. I do think there is some travel time between Amnoon and the Tomb, but with the now-empty inquest base near the Olmakhan, a chunk of travel time could be avoided.
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I've been roleplaying for years, and keeping an IC journal with daily posts since before HoT launched: the huge timeline desync is disgustingly apparent, to the point that I simply don't follow Anet's insanely warped timeline anymore. They clearly don't care, asides from constantly writing their narrative as an action movie plotline where every content release always happens in the space of a few days, but they neglect to do any actual world building. What is there left for people to RP? I'd rather stretch the limits of the story by not adhering to Anet's lunatic insistence to give every Living Story episode a plot-line straight out of 24, because time pressure is the cheapest narrative plot device they possess to make your actions relevant.

Or there is real life development time that causes some gaps because it's unavoidable unless you wrap up every single episode and campaign with a neat bow leaving no cliffhangers? YES, there is a "desync" of sorts, but that should've been obvious from the original living story, where ingame the marionette battle was around for two weeks, and it explicitly happened ONCE. Or attack on LA by Scarlet, where it couldn't have been weeks for "The wind to change to blow away from the city.", yet that's what happened ingame.

I have never seen it as a 'They don't care', but just as an unavoidable part of an advancing story and gameplay colliding.
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Take Gandara: it's a siege. They have supply lines, even if they are tenuous. That means that, by military definition, it is supposed to be a lengthy affair, and there is nothing wrong with that. Virtually all the events in Kourna are presented as being plague-containment actions, and there are actual siege lines in the form of the vine walls.
Obviously, Anet's writing team wanted to put the pressure on because a sense of urgency lends meaning to the hero-aspect of the character. No-one wants to sit through the six-month siege of Gandara as a plotline, because that's boring.
But you can bet your ass I'll roleplay it that way if I want to, because that situation is equally likely once you take away the entirely arbitrary urgency plot they've wedged into their episode.

Actually, I don't see anything saying they viewed Gandara as a siege. They have no siege weapons, and the events the commander does in Kourna as part of the story couldn't have taken a day, maybe 3 days to complete (and then they instantly went into the assault and getting into Gandara). I'd question how and why you'd extend that sequence out to months, as it only serves to make the main storyline stupid (Gorrik not knowing a thing about what he talks about), and serves no real purpose RP wise that I see.

It's like the guild I heard who were going about talking how the events at Dragon's Stand took place over the course of an entire month, where the game is very clear the lane pushes take place at same time as the commander is rescuing Logan/Zojja, and the Mouth battle takes place as they are going into Mordremoth's brain. Extending the sequence of dragon's stand out is just weird.
Quote:
Spearmarshal Zaeim: Zaeim here, Commander. The advance on Gandara has stalled. Rytlock needs high-grade explosives on the front.
Spearmarshal Zaeim: Supplies are exhausted, so Faren took it upon himself to raid an enemy encampment.
Spearmarshal Zaeim: Now he's attempting to deliver to Rytlock, by himself, beyong the walls. He'll never make it.
<Character name>: Damn. I'll head there myself, try to mop up this mess.
The advance on Gandara stalled, and we can clearly see Rytlock is within shouting distance of the bridge. And supplies are exhausted after that short period.
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Now obviously, there's an argument to be had on both sides: that's what this thread is for. I do my very best to try and stick to Anet's lore, in so far that it makes sense cohesively, and is not just bluntly idiotic. Part one is that I separate mechanics and lore, even when those two blur the line (Mist War, Waypoints, Resurrection Shrines) or contradict themselves, and part two is that I take a step back from the decisions Anet makes to lend weight to their storytelling, especially when that impacts the logical progress of events. In general, I'd rather play out all of Anet's "URGENT - THIS ALL HAPPENED IN THE SPACE OF AN HOUR!" stories over the scale of days, weeks or even months.
Not only does that keep internal roleplaying timelines intact (because some episodes are supposed to ICly happen right after each other, but OOCly months of RP have happened in between) without having to constantly retcon months and months of game time because Anet's arbitrary progression of time, it also provides a lot more room to interact and enjoy parts of the narrative in character.

I agree on splitting mechanics and lore in some cases, and that the events of the amnoon instance, and the tomb should have some gap. The Kourna area though I can't see taking longer then a few days without totally borking the entire episode's plotline, and making the situation weird for those who aren't the commander.
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Since HoT, TACH hasn't bothered to respect Anet's "lore" timeline anymore, because they fucked us over on that one. We had a choice as a collective there to either retcon... well, about a year of our IC timeline, because the community decided to take the Pact fleet leaving at the end of LS2 as having happened immediately. Or, we could decide to stick with our unbroken, unwarped timeline, with the note that the few IC dates we were eventually given didn't align with our journals and landmarks events entirely anymore. The years are still correct mind, but through sheer necessity, Mordremoth's canonical death, and our headcanon Mordremoth death, are months apart.

So for me, the entire point of trying to bend yourself around Anet's insane timeline is stupid. As long as you're within a closed-circuit guild, just break the contuinity, and do whatever suits your guild best from a timeline perspective. Is that lore-adhering? Fuck no. But doing otherwise is actually worse, because Anet's lore on their timeline is straight up nonsensical. The Mordremoth example is key, because illustrates an extremely flippant attitude to time continuity from Anet's standpoint, that is impossible for any roleplayer that does not make time-skipping and time-warping a habit to actually roleplay in the setting.

Yes, the heart of thorns launch gap was a bad one. But this is also why I personally advocate for not RPing so incredibly close to the commander's events, personally. Yes, if you are in a completely closed RP plotline that doesn't involve the general public, do as you wish. But understand that it is going a different path then the lore.
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It's one of those very rare occasions where I actively advocate lore-deviating for the sake of convenience.
But, if you want to follow the lore to the letter in every instance, then you are, obviously, entirely free to do so. I just thought my viewpoint on the matter might offer an interesting perspective.

I think some parts could be explained as having a gap (Amnoon to Tomb), but others are weird to make longer (events around Gandara). I also think if there is a part that is weird, we should try to find an answer. Olmakhan and Sunspear travel time? How about those inquest gates and that inquest base at the Ogre village we know about?
wrote:
That said, I have to agree with Tzahr that A-net's blatant disregard for roleplay is borderline offencive. You cannot pretend to listen to a community and give us a "roleplay party search" to get our money, and not put any effort into actually making the world worthy of using that party to begin with. (I will not even comment how the very notion of putting a LFG party for roleplaying shows how much they lack a grasp of roleplay)

I find blaming Anet for "disregarding" or "attacking" roleplayers is an empty statement these days, with little proof beyond "They aren't doing stuff solely for us." We are a minority of the playerbase, not a vast majority.
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Personally as a DM and a player I try to go down the middle ground. On one hand, I try to patch up everything I can and make sense of the universe often using Guild Wars 1 as a template, since I have found that Guild Wars 1 tied mechanics to lore and ic -way- better and as such serves as a better platform to try to understand how something works, especially with the classes. For example, saying that the moment X group goes through the portal with the soldiers, the events take place in the span of 3 days, and working around to somehow explain that their absence from IC is due to them travelling back etc.

As noted above, I think we should step back and look at the games, and see what answers we can find. As noted a few times, "Olmakhan and Sunspears could've have traveled up there that fast!" "But, there is an Asura gate nearby to the tomb, and one near the Olmakhan village..."
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To the matter at hand. Sure, the time pressure thing is one way of putting on the pressure on the main characters and give a heroic momentum to it all. But on the other hand, the gun-ho attitude they have had since the first expansion really kills off the living story they so want to promote. Every new area is viable and full of content in the span of a single living episode, at best, and instead of filling in the blanks and making the world more vibrant and actually alive, they just move on to the next big thing and we do not even have time to enjoy the areas.

I prefer to look at it as, the commander does there stuff, and then the world is there to explore. Our roleplay, our stories, shouldn't be incredibly tied to the commander, as most people RP normal folks instead of heroes on the front line.
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In guild wars 1 you also lay siege to Gandarra. And like in gw2, the assault lasted for a single day. HOWEVER, the way -that- was handled contrast to this, makes it that much more epic and intense because they spend time building up the entire momentum into the crescento that basically launches Nightfall. You spent time (which translates to weeks with ease), training recruits, planning the attack, marshalling your forces, sailing there, and sure, when you get there, the entire thing happens in a single day, but still you have lived the entire thing, experienced it fully, and when the time comes for the time pressure, you are actually invested.

In GW1 though, it's more of an attack then a siege, and most of the build-up you mention is entirely unrelated to the actual attack. Much of Istan is about finishing our training, then finding evidence of Varesh being a bad person to convince the elders to take action. In GW2, this extends more toward previous episodes and events. Sure, this episode by itself has little "investment", but taken together with previous ones, were we help the Olmakhan become secure and safe again and see Joko steal the plague, or helping the sunspears of Istan build up their forces into an actual army capable of engaging the awoken on the open battlefield, and winning, there is more to grasp.
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Right now the way the lore is expanding but remaining unexplained, it is becoming harder and harder to roleplay, as we see many new and interesting abilities for our classes that were previously unexplored but we get no information as to how and what they are and how to incorporate them into IC.

We don't need explanation on every skill or class, IMO. Almost all of GW1 skills have no explanation beyond the skill tooltip, where GW2 we actually have npcs who describe the abilities of the PoF elite specs.
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On one hand, we are roleplaying in Guild Wars 2, and wether we like to or not, have to adhere to the lore of Arena Net, unless we have a closed guild and we specifically bubble that rp entirelly.

You can adhere to the lore of the game AND not want to deal with the nonsensical timeline they force down our throat. They're not mutually exclusive.

There is a point where they do become mutually exclusive though. If one tries to state the battle of Gandara in this episode lasted for more then 1-3 days, that's directly in contrast to what the game's narrative shows us directly, and what is said by npcs. *Again, I'll note there can easily be a little bit longer of a gap between Amnoon and the Tomb. but Kourna? a few days at the most.*

In other places there is much more of a gap one could exploit timeline wise. Gandara/Central Kourna after the Commander shows up? Not as much.
GW2 home server- Sorrow's Furnance Kalavier.1097
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Posted Jul 20, 18
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Let me clear the air a bit. When saying that A-net disregards Roleplayers, I am not expecting them to cater only to us, but I expect honesty from it. You either have time for roleplayers, or you dont. The statement that they care about roleplaying communities and they want to make it a better game for us to roleplay or any similar sort of "rp friendly" update, they claim to do, is only undermined by the lack of it in actuality. Nobody has ever used the LFG for RP, and them doing that to "show they love the RP scene" to me is a bit annoying.

Would much rather have the honest response that we are just a minority and they cant provide for us considering their resources and time. If they -do- put in effort for roleplayers, then imo, they should put it where it counts. Instead of adding a LFG for rp, do something the RP scene needs. To me it just seems like a money hunting move, which I dont appreciate.


Now, skill wise and lore wise, I think there is a missunderstanding. I agree, we dont need to know exactly how everything works, totally with you on that. But I -do- expect us to know how a class works, in general. For example in GW1, you might not have a precise description of what does what IC, however the Mesmer description, multitude of skills and the way the game mechanics tie into the lore, let you get a WAY better grasp of what a class can and cant do in IC terms than we have in gw2.

Take two classes for example, Mesmer and Engineer.
Can mesmers affect minds? And if yes, then to what extend before the Mesmer collective knocks on your door? Can someone that can sense or see through magic be fooled by illusions? Can illusions kill? Can a mesmer's blade go through armor as the applied vulnerability and illusionary aspect of the slashes hints on? Can they dispel all magic, can they choose if they dispel enemy spells and spare friendly enchantments?

All of those are very vital for mesmer RP'ers (myself included) as it would give us at least something to work with and make something unique aside from just, what ammounts to either a spellcaster that uses clones to explode and damage people, or a fencer that just jumps around attempting to confuse someone with clones

Engineer on the other hand. Almost nothing in the Engineer's kit suggest he uses magic. But how do his potions work? are there downsides? are the elixers infused with magic? does he use magic? etc etc (not an engineer rp'er but those are the common questions I sometimes get).

Now, dont get me wrong, ultimately every guild has its own guidelines and limitations and interpretations of areas of the lore ANET is vague, so by all means that does not mean roleplaying is impossible or a chore as it might seem I am trying to point it out as. I am just explaining and pointing out things that I think would have helped us roleplay or at least get immersed in the world more. After all, not all lore junkies want to roleplay, and yet I have personally seen many people frustrated with that.

Thats all.
Posted Jul 20, 18 · OP
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