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The Official Path of Fire Commentary Thread (Obvious Spoiler Warning)

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Mounts will forever be a controversial topic in roleplay, and the same people who don't like insta-limb-regrowth will probably feel the same way about those who magically handwave away the difficulties and challenges of mount ownership.

Eh, many people don't focus on the tasks of daily life like going to the bathroom, paying bills, etc :p.
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Unless your animals exist within a magical Pokeball state of suspended animation (and for the other roleplayers around you, a state of suspended disbelief), owning a well-bred beast capable of bearing you into battle or racing around the savanna is expensive, and even more so if you own a raptor the size of a destrier. The most expensive part of ownership has, and always will be the upkeep of the animal over time. There is a reason why knights in the middle ages were undoubtedly filthy rich: from what I understand, in order to be a knight, you had to own at least one warhorse and that was like owning and maintaining a Ferrari.

An adult raptor would undoubtedly need to eat as much meat as any large predatory animal that is actively performing a lot of work, because work involves the expenditure of energy and energy can only be recovered by eating meat if they are an obligate carnivore, and meat is the most expensive variety of food.

Meat can also be found in the wild. That hydra you just killed before making camp? Plenty of meat on it. Or those sand sharks in the desert :).
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Let me put it this way: in order to solve the problem of mountable war-bred livestock being expensive to own and maintain, you would need to have magic that the very existence of would solve world hunger because we're talking about the economics of food.

Raptors could easily be allowed to hunt when making camp. Plenty of large beasts in the wilds to feed with.
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Of course, there are exceptions to this rule. Necromancers can probably raise econo-mounts from unwanted dead body parts and twist them into flesh golems of various shapes and sizes. It wouldn't be a desirable way for the rich and well-to-do to travel, but poorer characters could probably afford it. Sand jackals, while being magical constructs, can only be shaped and repaired by earth djinn so that makes repairing them difficult unless you were a horrible person and enslaved one with a magic lamp to repair your steed in exchange for a boon.

A: Why must a necro have an ugly flesh golem? My necro has a mostly normal undead raptor for her mount. And takes great pride in her minions being both functional and not dripping gunk everywhere or rotting. Aesthetically pleasing :d.
B: Where does the repair thing come from? I mean, yeah the default jackals can only be aquired from the djinn, but I don't recall anything about needing to repair them :p. Course, using the spoopy jackal skin, I dyed it a certain way to represent a massive undead wolf.
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So really, mounts are just another part of the setting for people with different tastes to disagree over.

And at times, take way beyond rational levels!


Though I admit other day in Amnoon I saw somebody rping with a jackal mount, and immediately I thought "Did he put in the thought about having the jackal mount?"

But, I did compare my seraph on a raptor to a centaur. Yeah that'd be a ROLFSTOMP.

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Posted Oct 22, 17
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What it boils down to is one section that really has some creativity and tries to keep within the boundaries of the world and another section that's just a bunch of rules lawyers.

Lore lawyering is fine with me as long as people are 'lawyering' their own creative work, in which case it's really just 'learning how to self-edit' their own fanfiction. Either that or they're just describing their personal standards and informing the other party why they're not willing to engage with a certain idea.

Some things that we do just handwave:

My personal rule is: "Why handwave when I can characterize?"

  • reading a book (How literate is my character and could I use it as a plot point?)
  • owning a house (Can my character afford to own a house, or are they renting? If they're renting, are they struggling to get by? Could I use their financial struggle to convey a sense of desperation and use that to propel them into some critical action to tell a story?)
  • running a farm (What are some of the challenges of running a farm and how could I make that interesting for the reader?)
  • being a cook (How can I convey to the reader that my character is knowledgeable in the realm of culinary arts? What kind of words would an experienced chef use to describe a dish that a layperson wouldn't use?)
  • owning a restaurant (See 'Owning a House')
  • owning a business in general (^)
  • owning dolyaks in order to transport goods (^)

It's been stated in game that raptors love the taste of fireflies. Which means they might really like the taste of sparkflies. And you've seen the size of those things. And as mountable raptors are not native to places where sparkflies and the larger varieties of fireflies that exist in game, that means there are no natural predators for those massive bugs. Hell, there's a chance for an entire economy to be created with a new business model just for that alone.

That sounds like it could be an interesting story!

Secondly, we don't need to show a raptor being fed. We really don't. And if someone demands that in rp, just look at them and say 'don't you want to physically see me go to the bathroom, too' because we all think that our characters do go to the bathroom, but we don't need to see that.

I don't think I've ever seen a bathroom scene in any work of fiction, except that one time Brandon Sanderson's character Shallan asked a knight how he went to the bathroom on the battlefield while wearing a full plate harness. Adolin's answer was absolutely priceless and it became a memorable moment in the story. If you can find a way to write an interesting scene about how your character feeds their raptors then that would be pretty amusing, but if it's not relevant to the story that you're writing then you don't have to.

Still, one should probably keep in mind that these are live creatures we're working with and they do need to eat. If someone wrote a character who was simultaneously dirt poor, unable to feed themselves, and could somehow afford to own a thoroughbred beast of war then my eyebrows would be raised. Can you imagine a homeless person pushing a sports car down the street with all of their meager possessions inside? Either there's a good story behind it or the author didn't think about the implications of what they just wrote.
Posted Oct 22, 17
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If someone wrote a character who was simultaneously dirt poor, unable to feed themselves, and could somehow afford to own a thoroughbred beast of war then my eyebrows would be raised. Can you imagine a homeless person pushing a sports car down the st wrote:

I mean, I guess I always thought of mounts as a type of pet. Not all of them need to be bred for war. Horses are mounts in reality, but plenty of people keep them as pets. As for being homeless, plenty of homeless people still own a car. Maybe not a nice one, but a car nonetheless. Homeless people also often have pets such as dogs. I wouldn't say it's out of the ordinary for a homeless character to own a raptor or springer as they seem more common and easier to obtain. Plenty of people take in wild rabbits as pets (though I don't recommend it), I wouldn't put it outside the realm of lore for someone to have found a group of wild springers and raised one.
Posted Oct 22, 17
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Well, one could easily feed themselves with rations and let the raptor chomp down on that beastie they killed earlier.

I wouldn't see it being a stretch, person carves off a chunk of meat to cook for themselves, leaves rest of the beast for raptor to eat.
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Posted Oct 22, 17
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Sheriff Shani wrote:
And if someone demands that in rp, just look at them and say 'don't you want to physically see me go to the bathroom, too' because we all think that our characters do go to the bathroom, but we don't need to see that.

Eh, I've done it... To be fair though my character was in prison at the time. It's not like those cells have walls for privacy, and it's not my fault the warden decided to come chat with me in the middle of her morning piss.
Posted Oct 22, 17 · OP
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Well, one could easily feed themselves with rations and let the raptor chomp down on that beastie they killed earlier.

I wouldn't see it being a stretch, person carves off a chunk of meat to cook for themselves, leaves rest of the beast for raptor to eat.

What you just described is usually called poaching and there are some situations where it would be both illegal and unfavorable for the local communities to allow it. What would happen if a village that relied on hunted game to feed their population allowed just anyone to kill the local animals whenever it pleased them? That may happen in video games where adventurers round up animals in the hundreds and farm them for experience, but in a realistic setting, there are hunting licenses, territory markers, and real conflicts over territory disputes because resources are finite and don't respawn instantly like pixel creatures do.

But alright, let's say that this wandering poacher managed to keep their expensive livestock alive while feeding on animals in some secluded part of the world. Secluded places are, by the way, breeding grounds for other unsavory characters such as bandits.

Scenario A) A law enforcement officer on patrol sees a vagabond riding the animal equivalent of a sports car.
What the officer is probably thinking: "Grand theft dino, catch the thief and report the stolen animal OR sell it and hide the money because thieves make more money than people who obey the law and it's really not fair, also I need that money for my child's college tuition and this vagabond probably stole it anyway so I'm really just doing the world a favor."

Scenario B) Someone with any form of weapon or physical strength sees an unarmed person in possession of a very expensive commodity.
What the onlooker could be thinking: "I'm going to steal it and make a lot of money because I'm stronger than they are and nothing can stop me, especially if I have a loaded projectile weapon and can just shoot them from hiding."

There's a moral to this story: There are no scenarios where being poor while displaying outlandish sums of money is a good idea.
Posted Oct 22, 17
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But... a raptor is hardly described as a sports car level of expense. Hell, there are blurbs where Amnoon encourages travelers to buy a raptor companion/mount before leaving the city if they wish to roam the desert. Infact, raptors, springers, and skimmers seem fairly easy to obtain. The skimmer ranch owner is described as frequently (though no happily) selling skimmers to treasure hunters during the stage where the commander seeks the hidden forgotton "city".

As for poaching, I'm meaning more like "Oh, we are setting up camp for the night. We'll carve some of that sand shark that tried to eat us for our dinner, and let the raptors eat the rest of the body." There are lots of hostile wildlife in the world of Tyria. And raptors would definitely be more common in the desert then central Tyria regions for now.
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Posted Oct 22, 17
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If someone wrote a character who was simultaneously dirt poor, unable to feed themselves, and could somehow afford to own a thoroughbred beast of war then my eyebrows would be raised. Can you imagine a homeless person pushing a sports car down the st wrote:

I mean, I guess I always thought of mounts as a type of pet. Not all of them need to be bred for war. Horses are mounts in reality, but plenty of people keep them as pets. As for being homeless, plenty of homeless people still own a car. Maybe not a nice one, but a car nonetheless. Homeless people also often have pets such as dogs. I wouldn't say it's out of the ordinary for a homeless character to own a raptor or springer as they seem more common and easier to obtain. Plenty of people take in wild rabbits as pets (though I don't recommend it), I wouldn't put it outside the realm of lore for someone to have found a group of wild springers and raised one.

Do you know how expensive a horse is? To buy, to feed, to keep in a stable, to bring to the vet? Now imagine a homeless person who would somehow own a horse. That would be the level of stupid of a dirty poor character owning a mount.
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Posted Oct 22, 17
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If someone wrote a character who was simultaneously dirt poor, unable to feed themselves, and could somehow afford to own a thoroughbred beast of war then my eyebrows would be raised. Can you imagine a homeless person pushing a sports car down the st wrote:

I mean, I guess I always thought of mounts as a type of pet. Not all of them need to be bred for war. Horses are mounts in reality, but plenty of people keep them as pets. As for being homeless, plenty of homeless people still own a car. Maybe not a nice one, but a car nonetheless. Homeless people also often have pets such as dogs. I wouldn't say it's out of the ordinary for a homeless character to own a raptor or springer as they seem more common and easier to obtain. Plenty of people take in wild rabbits as pets (though I don't recommend it), I wouldn't put it outside the realm of lore for someone to have found a group of wild springers and raised one.

Do you know how expensive a horse is? To buy, to feed, to keep in a stable, to bring to the vet? Now imagine a homeless person who would somehow own a horse. That would be the level of stupid of a dirty poor character owning a mount.

Okay but also know that roleplay doesn't have to adhere to every realistic expectation we have in reality. It's roleplay. We have magical pink butterfly spewing magical girls, pumpkin headed kings, and commanders who kill gods. I don't think something as minute as being poor and still owning a mount is something that needs to be addressed so viciously. That's called nitpicking.
Posted Oct 22, 17
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Hysτεry wrote:
If someone wrote a character who was simultaneously dirt poor, unable to feed themselves, and could somehow afford to own a thoroughbred beast of war then my eyebrows would be raised. Can you imagine a homeless person pushing a sports car down the st wrote:

I mean, I guess I always thought of mounts as a type of pet. Not all of them need to be bred for war. Horses are mounts in reality, but plenty of people keep them as pets. As for being homeless, plenty of homeless people still own a car. Maybe not a nice one, but a car nonetheless. Homeless people also often have pets such as dogs. I wouldn't say it's out of the ordinary for a homeless character to own a raptor or springer as they seem more common and easier to obtain. Plenty of people take in wild rabbits as pets (though I don't recommend it), I wouldn't put it outside the realm of lore for someone to have found a group of wild springers and raised one.

Do you know how expensive a horse is? To buy, to feed, to keep in a stable, to bring to the vet? Now imagine a homeless person who would somehow own a horse. That would be the level of stupid of a dirty poor character owning a mount.

Precisely why stealing a horse used to be an offense worthy of hanging. They're not cheap, and do require maintenance. Horses are not cows; one does not merely fence in a previously open field and put a horse in it. They're not equipped to live on just grass alone. They require oats, vegetables, and occasionally fruit as treats. And we're talking about an animal that weights 600-800 lbs, so they eat a lot. Of course, horses are also highly intelligent and very social animals. So you either need constant companionship with them or you may as well get two of them to keep one another company.

Expounding upon your point, Hystery. Don't mind me, lol.
Posted Oct 22, 17 · OP
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